Rose Mapendo had a loving husband, eight wonderful children, a successful family business and a beautiful home.  That was until her life was turned upside down in an instant.

ROSE: We was work as a team.  Really my husband, you know, he was not like husband, he was like friend.  Yeah, we had a good time together and we was work like team.  We really happy.

Soft-spoken, gentle Rose Mapendo doesn’t seem like the heroic type, until she begins to share her story.  It’s one that has been documented in an award-winning film called “Pushing the Elephant.”  Since the movie’s release, Rose has been celebrated as a modern-day hero, someone who literally went through hell and lived to tell about it.

ROSE: On August 2nd, 1998 the war began, fighting. But it was announcement from the government, from President himself when he stood in the television with machete, asking to kill the Tutsi tribe who was in Congo.  It did not come really true to my heart it was me.  Because I am a Congolese. I never been to other country. I was so surprised when the government send four police to my house.  They were looking for my husband.

When I took my husband and hid him somewhere, I was praying.  Just pray for blood of Jesus to cover my house.

I really grew up in a Christian home, my mom was a strong believer, my dad was, and I had the faith God will do it.

When everybody was asleep, is how the three trucks full with the military came to my house.  It was a crazy. I heard the movement and I looked in the window, it was like a hundred soldiers.  I took my husband in the kitchen, put him under the bed.  And they put the kids, you know, they were sleeping. They took me without even shoes, with a baby in my hands and the other kids.  And they just threw us to the truck.

HOLLY: You never saw your husband again after that?

ROSE: You know, I left my husband under the bed. They separate us with the other men who was arrested at that time. And the third day my husband, he give up.  It really was a big second shocked how my husband, he give up.  And when they came to say, “Who is the wife?  I said it was me.  They said, “Do you have a last word, do you want to talk to your husband?”  And I asked him, “How you do that?”  He just turned, he said “Don’t worry, I am a man.  I have to die before my family.”

HOLLY: I am sure you miss him a lot.

(ROSE CRIES)

Painful memories often bring Rose to tears when she tells her story. Like today, she finds the strength she needs to keep sharing her tragic experience.

HOLLY: From there, from your home, they took you and the other families to what they called a death camp.  Were there moments when you felt like you couldn’t make it through or were you able to sort of maintain control through that time?

ROSE: The military was a guard 24 hours, seven days a week.  There was four during the day and four during the night.  And for that, I say “What is this?”  And I said God, “Is it really God exists?” And I said, “I will take my life,” and when I turned, look at my children, and I said “God, my kids, they are still alive.  How can I take my life when the kids, they are still alive? Who’s going to be there to feed them?” And I said “God, forgive me!  Let me die in your hands!”  When I was a pray, and I just, I feel God said, “How can I forgive you when you don’t forgive the enemy? When you don’t forgive somebody?”

And I said, “How can you tell me to forgive them?  Look at what they have done for us, and look what they have done for our husband!” And I say, “You think they are perfect more than us?  What we have done against you?”

And when I was pray that time, it just remind me Jesus prayed in Gethsemane.  And I said, “You think His Father answer Him?”  And I said, no, until Jesus said, “Father, let your will be done!”  And God immediately said God forgive anyone.  And begin to say, if you can forgive me, the word came from my mouth.  “Forgive everyone!”  And I said, “God, forgive anyone.”

Believe me, some people they think forgiveness is the key!  People, they think I survived, because I am here, I was rescued.  I survive from the day I make the decision for forgiveness.

Man: It’s my honor to present the Humanitarian of the Year Award to Rose Mapendo.

ROSE: I want to thank God and to honor Him, who saved me and my family and all the survivors, Tutsi Congolese, in the death camp.

The documentary about Rose actually began filming after she and all but one of her children had been rescued and resettled in America.  The focus is on the reunion she had with her eldest daughter, after being separated for 13 years.

The film also highlights Rose’s humanitarian efforts, including trips back to the Congo to counsel women affected by the region’s ongoing turmoil.

Woman #1:            We need to stop following our husbands.

Woman #2:            Let me tell you, the key is among the women. Believe it or not, the key is in your hands.

HOLLY: Why is it named “Pushing the Elephants?”  What does that mean?

ROSE: All together, we can make a difference when we are united.  I believe unity is a power.  Anything we do, nobody can do alone.  And they asked me, “What do you want the film to be named?”  And I said “Pushing the Elephant.”  All together, more hands is how we can push the elephant!

MUYIWA: Welcome, Denise.

DENISE: Thank you, pleasure to be with you.

MUYIWA: Thank you so much for joining us.  And we are talking about Flying Solo, your book, A Journey of Divorce, Healing and a Very Present God. Now before you wrote this book, you had written several books.

DENISE: Yea, I’ve been a fiction writer since 2004.  I say I write fiction books about crazy people from the south in the States.  And so that’s all I’ve known, and had a heart to write non-fiction for years, but it wasn’t until this story that all of that came about.

MUYIWA: Now why did you decide to – I mean a very private affair – to make it very public in a book?

DENISE: Well, that was never my intention.  That is actually the journal from the year following my divorce, and I journalled extensively just to heal.  I really felt like it was part of that healing journey that God had me on.  And so about a year after my divorce, I was like, “Okay, Lord, what do we do with this?”  And I started a blog for singles of all kinds, widowed, divorced, never married, and it was called Flying Solo.  And out of that, I would just share some of my personal stories of what I walked through, and it ended up becoming a book that I never intended to write.  But what I can tell you, it’s not the details of my divorce.  It is the details of what God was to me in the middle of my pain.

MUYIWA: And it’s interesting because it lets you into the mind of someone going through it.  I mean at the very beginning of the book, Day 1 it says this, “What do you wear to get divorced?  That’s the only thing that kept running through my mind.”

And you read it and you think, that’s true – what was going through your mind apart from what you wear on that day?

DENISE: Well, I tell people, there is no playbook to grief.  Grief has no etiquette, it’s rude and ugly and – you don’t know what to expect.  And so when I sit in front of that mirror, you know what to wear the day you get married.  You spend years as a little girl flipping through magazines and picking that out.  But when you’re standing in your closet, and you’re faced with the reality that something that you thought would be forever is coming to an end, what do you wear for that?

And it was in that thought that I realized that there would be no playbook to this pain, that I would just have to trust that at each moment, at each interval, with whatever the decision was that had to be made that day, that the Lord would let me know what to do.

And He did, even to the clothes that I wore to court that day.

MUYIWA: Now, talking about God in the middle of all this, it’s intriguing to hear your thoughts and how God met you, because you call it a journey on divorce.

And so there were different stages.  Because even for me, I know people who are going through it at the moment, before we came on the air, having spoken to a dear friend of mine who is going through it in London at the moment and just hearing from that side.  So I wonder, what were the different stages in the journey that you went through, and how did God become real in those?

DENISE: He was so present from the very beginning.  I love what C.S. Lewis says.  He says, “God whispers to us in our pleasure, He speaks to us in our conscience, and He shouts to us in our pain.”  Because pain screams.  And sometimes it can be so deafening, it can quiet the voice of God to the point that we don’t think He’s present.  But He’s always present.  And so I asked Him in the very beginning, “Please don’t let me miss you.”  And detail after detail, moment after moment, from giving up, putting away my Bible that my husband had given to me during our wedding ceremony, and getting a free Bible, one that I loved and wanted, in the mail, was one of those detailed ways that He loved me.  And at each step, no matter what I had to do – I remember the first time I realized I was angry, it was opening a jar of preserves for some homemade biscuits, and there was no one there to open my jar, and someone should have been there to open that jar.  And I realized how angry I was in that moment, which is a real step of grief.  And at Christmas, having no one knowing that story, I get this odd little shaped contraption, and it’s a can opener for hard to open lids.

MUYIWA: Oh, wow.

DENISE: And I knew in that moment that there wasn’t a detail of my journey or my story that God wouldn’t be present in.

MUYIWA: So let me ask you, sharing this journal, and chronicling your journey, what are some of the things that you hope this will achieve in somebody else’s life?

DENISE: I think there are two major themes in that book.  One is that God is present in the middle of pain if we will look for Him.  Now we can get our eyes so focused on our pain that we never see what God is doing, but I didn’t want to miss Him, because I knew pain can reveal Him in the sweetest and most beautiful ways.

But the other thing that happened to me is I went on a journey to reclaim my heart.  I had shut down that God-designed heart that we all come into the world with, that childlike wonder, that we can be anything or do anything, and through the course of my pain, I shut that down, and I went on a journey to reclaim that heart that God had placed in the soul of me when he created me.  And that was a journey of wonder and delight and excitement in what God had for me.

MUYIWA: Now, finally, Denise you’ve gone through that and you found God at every step, where-where is Denise now and do you look back and say, I’m thankful I was afflicted?

DENISE: I hear people say a lot of times, “I have no regrets.”  I do have regrets.  There are things that if I could go back and re-do them, I would re-do them.  But this is where my story is now, and the beauty of God is that He is always in the middle of our stories, no matter how messy they are, or how ugly they are.  But He has written a beautiful new chapter for me.  I never had children, I was married for 13 years, and not having children was a huge heartbreak for me.  And about a year and a half ago I married a beautiful man who came with five children.

MUYIWA: Wow.

DENISE: So I’ve become the bonus mom to five children, and it’s very bittersweet.  Because the Lord knows how to keep us dependent on Him, whatever that looks like.  And so I just love to see how God is going to write my story each day and what it’s going to look like, but what I do know is that the woman that was so shut down when she started this journal, is not the woman that sits across from you today.

MUYIWA: Denise, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts and your story with us.

DENISE: Thank you.  It’s been my pleasure.

Are you working too hard?  Now a little hard work never killed anybody that I know of, but before you give me a resounding yes let me explain what I’m asking.

Life is work, so there’s no question that we’re all working; but, are you working effectively or ineffectively?  Are you fruitful or just plain busy?  Are you walking purposefully or just muddling your way through?  Your answer to those questions will determine whether or not you’re working too hard.

Any person who works with a tool that chops, cuts, or trims understands the importance of having a sharp blade.  Working with a dull blade is time consuming, frustrating, and dangerous.  Above all, any instrument that is dull causes us to work harder.  Ecclesiastes 10:10 puts it this way,

“If the axe be dull,

And he does not sharpen its edge,

Then he must exert greater strength;

But wisdom is advantageous for winning success.”

(The Bible: An American Translation)

All the people who have given their lives to Jesus Christ should be swinging a sword.  Ephesians 6:17 tells us to take the sword of the Spirit, and the surrounding verses clearly tell us that we are fencing our way through life against an unseen enemy.  Ephesians 6 tells us that the sword of the Spirit is the Word of God.  Hebrews 4:12 says the Word is sharp, piercing, dividing, and discerning.  Anyone using that kind of tool is on the cutting edge, working diligently but also skillfully and effortlessly.

So, if we don’t want to work too hard then we have to keep ourselves sharp.  One way to effectively do that is by adopting the four “D’s” when it comes to the Word of God:  Decisiveness, Dedication, Discipline and Determination.

First, you have to make a decision that you are going to read and study the Bible daily, which includes meditating upon and memorizing scripture every day.  Secondly, you have to devote yourself wholly to the Word of God.  You must set your eyes, ears, and heart apart for the Word of God.  If you don’t do this, your eyes, ears, and heart will be busy delighting in other things, which makes us very dull.  Thirdly, you have to discipline yourself in the Word of God which means walking in the Word or obeying the Bible.  In Psalm 101 David says, “I will behave myself wisely and in a perfect way.”  If you do what the Bible says you will always behave your best!  Lastly, you must be determined.  YOU CANNOT QUIT.  Don’t give up!  You have to keep going if you want to cross the finish line.  No army that has surrendered to the enemy has ever won.  Romans 2:7 speaks of patient continuance in well doing.  When we patiently continue to do what the Bible says we will never grow dull.  So, let us work hard and long, but let us also keep ourselves sharp so that we never work harder or longer than we have to.

Have you ever heard the saying your attitude determines your altitude?  It is a good thought to keep in the back of your mind as you travel through life’s challenges and obstacles.  It is certain that into each life some rain must fall, but as surely as April showers give way to May flowers the storms of life can produce a fragrant bouquet of precious spiritual fruit.  Let’s examine the words attitude and altitude.

Attitude has to do with the position or state of your mind.  Altitude comes from the Latin word altus which means high and another term that refers to state, condition, or manner.  Simply put, the position of your mind determines how high you go.  We can all agree that it’s easy to have a positive frame of mind when life is going well, but what about when life turns sour and hands you a bunch of lemons.  A positive attitude is the powerful sweetener that can turn sour lemons into delicious lemonade.

The story of Joseph is a wonderful illustration of the relationship between attitude and altitude; his life also serves as a divine blue print for anyone who will dare to receive God’s dream for their life.  Joseph’s dream life was one of honor, glory, and power, but this dream is not unique to Joseph.  It is God’s dream for all  who serve Him.  II Timothy 2:2 says if we suffer with Christ we shall also reign with Him.  Joseph’s life shows us that our reigning in life begins here on earth; however, before Joseph could be exalted to the throne he had to endure the pit and the prison.  If he had given up in the pit or the prison he never would have experienced the throne.  Just as Joseph had to be forced into a pit and thrown unjustly into prison, we too will have a pit and prison experience before soaring into the heights of exaltation.

Joseph did not understand all the pain and sorrow he experienced, but in the midst of it he understood that God was in control of his life.  In God’s hands our sorrow is the pathway to greatness.  Why?   Because His strength is solely made perfect in our weakness, true greatness is only found in the strength of God.

Proverbs 15:33 says before honor is humility.  We are never more humbled than when we are in the pit or the prison.  Joseph positioned his mind on the sovereignty of God.  That is what helped him to maintain a positive attitude that prevented him from quitting along the way.  God’s will is always positive no matter how heartbreaking our circumstances may seem.  If we have committed our lives to Jesus Christ we will go to the pit and to the prison, but we will not stay there if we remain obedient by keeping our minds fixed on the sovereignty of God.  Don’t give up in the valley of humiliation, for it is only the gateway to honor.

Remain faithful and obedient to God.  Honor Him in the pit and the prison, and He will count you worthy of double honor just like He did Joseph.

HOLLY: Now, I’m going to start off by reading something that you wrote. You said, “My falling off the edge looked like this: one day I was the co-host of a nationally syndicated talk show and that night I was a patient in a psychiatric ward.”

Now, that’s obviously a drastic turn of events. Can you please tell us what happened?

SHEILA WALSH: Yeah. From 1987 to 1992, I was the co-host of The 700 Club. Loved it, but to everyone who had just saw the outside of my life, I looked like I was doing fine. But inside I was still dealing with the pain of my father’s very violent death when I was a little girl. And I think when you adore your father, and the last time you ever look in his eyes, he has such a look of hatred — I mean, as an adult I understand that it was brain damage, as a child I just thought, “What did my dad see that was so terrible?”

And I tried to hide that all these years, but God knew the truth, and He allowed my life to hit the wall at 200 miles, and literally, in the morning I sat beside Pat, co-hosted the show, and by that evening I was in the locked ward of a psychiatric hospital.

My dad died in a psych ward when he was 34. And when I walked through those doors that locked behind me that night, I was 34 as well. I literally felt as if I’d gone to hell, but what I discovered is sometimes God will take you to a prison to set you free.

HOLLY: Wow. You actually were depressed, as you just said, to the point that you considered suicide. Where there some specific promises from God that actually helped you get well?

SHEILA WALSH: I think it’s interesting that so often the promises of God become most real when you find yourself in a place that’s almost the antithesis of the promise. ‘Cause I’ve always loved — Romans 8 is one of my favorite chapters of the Bible. It begins with, “No condemnation,” and ends with, “No separation.” And I used to cling onto that, that nothing can separate us from the love of God. But in that place where I felt like I’d been abandoned, I discovered that God knew exactly — in fact, I had an encounter with an angel, the only one I’ve ever been aware of, before or since — about 3:00 in the morning, I didn’t get into the bed, I pulled a blanket off the bed and I sat in a corner of the room, and they told me for the first night I was on suicide watch, they would check on me every 15 minutes during the night. And at 3:00 in the morning I heard someone come into my room and I didn’t even look up, but they walked right up to me and stood in front of me and I saw a man’s feet, so I looked up. Looked to me just like a hospital worker going off duty, but he put something in my hands, and it was a little -it was a lamb, like a stuffed toy, and he turned and went to the door, and when he got to the door, he stopped and he turned around and he said, “Sheila, the Shepherd knows where to find you.”

HOLLY: Wow.

SHEILA WALSH: And at the darkest moment in my life, when I felt as if anything that gave me any value as a human being, I heard the greatest news of my life, that no matter how lost you feel, the Shepherd knows where to find you.

HOLLY: Wow. That is so amazing.

Now, you mentioned your father a little bit earlier and you talk about that personal story in your book as well, when we lose our loved ones, that is one of the times we definitely have to hold onto those promises. What helped you through that?

SHEILA WALSH: Well, I look — when Christ was having the most significant conversation with His closest friends, right before He knows that He’s about to be betrayed, they are looking for what their understanding of Messiah was, what Isaiah spoke of, “Unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given and the government will be upon his shoulders.” They’re waiting for Him to march into Jerusalem and take over. Jesus knows the opposite is about to happen. And He said to them, “In this world, you will have trouble.” That word there, trouble, that Greek word is like a storm at sea. In this world, you’re going to walk through some storms that you think, “I cannot survive through this one,” but Christ said, “Take heart, I have overcome the world.” And He went on to tell them, “I have gone to prepare a place for you. And if it wasn’t so, I would have told you.”

And I actually went back, not so long ago, to that very place my father actually threw himself into the river. He escaped from the hospital one night and was found in the morning caught in the salmon nets in the river. And I took my father’s journey and I stood on the edge of the river and I felt Christ say to me, “Sheila, that night he went from this grass into my arms, and I carried him all the way home.”

HOLLY: Wow. That’s one of the great promises of God, that He’s with us even until the end. You know, we talked about these specific situations that you’ve been through with the loss of your father and with the depression, people go through those type of circumstances and other things, but for some reason we always find it very difficult to hold onto the promises of God. Why do you think that is?

SHEILA WALSH: I think the very word “promise” means so little within our culture. You know, I remember when Christian, our son, was a little boy, he saw a commercial on TV for a fishing rod that promised you could catch a fist in 10 minutes and he was like, “Mom, I so want that.” And I was like, “Baby, fishing is a skill. They can’t promise you’re going to catch a fish.” And he said to me, with the innocence of a child, “Mom, they couldn’t say it on television if it’s not true.” And I think, gosh, what a sad reality that our culture lies to us, our government lies to us, and I think that’s why it’s hard to take God at His Word.

But what I have discovered is that God is not man, that He should lie. We read about that in the Book of Numbers. When God says something, no matter what the circumstances look like, if God says it, you can stake your life on it.

HOLLY: Amen to that. Now, there are probably people watching right now who are going through great storms in their lives. What would you say to someone today who needs a word of encouragement?

SHEILA WALSH: Sometimes when God doesn’t answer our prayers the way we want, it affects how we feel about ourselves and affects how we look on God. We think, “Lord, you answered her prayer, so why didn’t you answer mine? Do you love her more? Did she pray better? Was there some formula?”

Paul tells us, “We see as through — as in a glass darkly.” And it’s nothing to do with the heart of God. He is committed to every child who loves Him to get us all the way home. And I love to remind people, you know, in Israel, Christ called Himself a shepherd. I grew up with that image in Scotland of the shepherd coming behind the sheep with a sheepdog. You will never see that in Israel. In Israel, the shepherd goes ahead of the sheep. And Christ, in John 10, calls Himself “the Good Shepherd,” who after He brings the sheep out, goes ahead of them.

And I love to tell people it’s not the sheep’s job to get themselves home, that’s the shepherd’s job. Christ is committed to take you and help you get all the way home if you just stay as close to His heart as possible.

BRAD STINE: Thanks for having me, though I do have to complain, I specifically asked for a basket of pomegranates, you gave me oranges.     I can’t work under these conditions, (MUYIWA LAUGHS) that’s all I’m getting at right now, folks. It’s unbelievable.

MUYIWA: We might have to get God involved in this.

BRAD STINE: Something! We’re going to have — if He could fish and loaves, He, maybe –

MUYIWA: I mean, if He could do water to wine –

BRAD STINE: — oranges to pomegranates.  That’s it!

MUYIWA: Oranges to pome — I mean that’s done.

BRAD STINE: Or wine. He can keep doing wine, that’s up to Him. That’s God thing, He can do what He wants.

MUYIWA: Now, you are known as “God’s comic.”

BRAD STINE: New Yorker magazine called me that.

MUYIWA: Wow!

BRAD STINE: — that was –

MUYIWA: Now, New Yorker magazine is not a Christian magazine.

BRAD STINE: Nooooo! (SLIGHT LAUGH)

MUYIWA: And many people regard you as the person or Christian comic with the most coverage and — but the beginnings for you as a young man, or was it a child, wasn’t so funny. For those who are not familiar, tell us about the beginnings.

BRAD STINE: Well, I grew up in a lower middle class family in the United States, in the Midwest, in Indiana, a little tiny farm community, a pretty typical childhood. But definitely it was kind of in the ‘60s and my dad ended up having an affair, going off and getting a mistress with my mom, and I would find her crying, and not knowing what was happening. And there was a divorce. And then of course, that just is destructive to a child.

And back in those days, it was very — it was a time when divorce was beginning to be become something that was easy to do, go ahead and do it, find yourself, it’s all about you, kids will be fine. And they didn’t really understand the destructive element of how that will affect a child, their hope that somebody will be watching over them, that they can feel secure, all the things that have really destroyed the family unit as we know it, or knew it for generations, became to be accepted as normal.

I had a weird experience in that my parents actually reconciled and got back together. We moved to California.

MUYIWA: Okay.

BRAD STINE: Then they got divorced again. So, just as I thought that perhaps things were getting back to normal and I could have confidence that even when the worst-case scenario happens, it can get fixed, God’ll fix it, you know, it fell apart again.

And at that age when your parents are really the ones you’re looking at as your representation of God, as someone looking over you and watching out for you and leading you, and that you know no matter what ever happens they’ll be there.

MUYIWA: Yes.

BRAD STINE: They betray you. And it is a betrayal to a covenant.

MUYIWA: Now, obviously it had a huge impact on you, how did that play out in your life, be it at school or, with your friends? And where did the Jesus thing come in for you?

BRAD STINE: Yeah, I mean, what was also interesting was I kind of grew up in the church. We did go to church. My mom was pretty committed to that. My dad grew up in that, though he wasn’t quite as active uh or interested. And then sort of like I said, he kind of bought into that whole ‘60s-‘70s thing, “do your own thing,” and really kind of ran away from it. So I didn’t have as much background of faith through my parents as though that was something that was integral to who they were.

But I connected to it. I mean, it was something that made sense to me, that I felt was important.

MUYIWA: Uh-huh.

BRAD STINE: I was always a Christian, frankly, since I was  in 4^th grade.

MUYIWA: So now, at that stage were you aware that you were the type that could make people laugh and did that used to get you in trouble?

BRAD STINE: Well, you know, when you know God when you’re 9, you start there, you know Him for a long time, but what it does do, if you grew up in the church, it makes for really boring testimony (MUYIWA LAUGHS) because all you got is testimony. You didn’t have any sin to talk about and — so I would long to have a good testimony.

I watched people up there doing “I was addicted to heroin and the Lord freed me.” And I’d be like, “Oh! If I was addicted to heroin!” You know, I wanted a good testimony. “I was a prostitute and the Lord freed me.” And I’m like, “I could have done that!” (MUYIWA LAUGHS) I was was nine. I actually had to manufacture a testimony to sound spiritual. I’d be like, “Yes, I used to have difficulty with long division and the Lord freed me from my mathematical shackles.” You know, I didn’t know what to do.

So you find yourself not having  a life experience to draw from and say, “Here’s where I was and here’s why this is better.”

MUYIWA: Okay.

BRAD STINE: And I think why a lot of Christians -kids, that start in that world from the beginning and grow up, I think that’s why it’s very common for them to have a prodigal story.

MUYIWA: Right, right.

BRAD STINE: Because they, frankly, it’s like being raised with a rich family, you don’t know how else to think. You’re supposed to have money.

MUYIWA: Right.

BRAD STINE: You’re supposed to have a pool. You’re supposed to have 5 cars. That’s how it works. You don’t know any different. And so, I think you take for granted God’s grace because you figure it’s always been there. And so you kind of begin to wonder –

MUYIWA: Uh-huh.

BRAD STINE: — what is this other side like? What does that side look like? ‘Cause it kind of looks fun.

MUYIWA: So what was the other side like for you? Did you ever find out?

BRAD STINE: The other side was exactly like it’s like for the original prodigal. It’s fun. The reason that we are enticed to sin is because sin works.

MUYIWA: Right.

BRAD STINE: It’s fun. Sex is great. Drinking is great. I mean, — there is a moment where you feel better than you were prior to that. But, there’s always a price that always outweighs the investment.

MUYIWA: Right.

BRAD STINE: And that’s what you end up finding out, which is what the prodigal found out. There came a point when the money runs out, the-the booze runs out, the sex runs out, whatever runs out, or maybe even more importantly — it no longer satisfies.

You realize, “This — if this is all there is, if this is the ultimate thing the world can offer me, and all I get is a hangover, and STDs, why do I want this world?” So, I think, that’s why you go home. It’s like, “This is nonsense. Let me go back where I can find my balance.”

MUYIWA: I tell you what, Brad, we’ve got a couple more minutes together, but before –

BRAD STINE: I want 7 minutes. (MUYIWA LAUGHS) That’s what I asked for. Lord, stop the sun!

MUYIWA: Let’s talk to God about it.

BRAD STINE: Stop the sun!

MUYIWA: No, don’t stop the sun. Stop the clock.

BRAD STINE: Oh, okay, rain! Rain immediately. I don’t know, I’m confused now.

MUYIWA: So Brad, before we started talking on camera, you mentioned a few of the names that you’ve been on their shows. I mean, in the UK, the man you were in his show was a huge name, but you couldn’t even remember who he was.

BRAD STINE: Well, I’m embarrassed to say that because this is probably going to end up in the — yeah, I was on Joules Holland’s show,  a wonderful pianist, I believe.

MUYIWA: Yes.

BRAD STINE: And , quite a host, and I did do his show years ago. And this is prior to even me doing Christian comedy. It was where I was just clean and trying to find my way in the world as a comic. And I did that show. I did Australia. I’ve done a few things overseas, but mainly, television  in the US, on MTV and HBO and Showtime and A&E, a lot of the shows that were here.

But I was finding my way. And ultimately what happened was  my faith became more important to me than the package that I was delivering to the culture, which was humor. Humor is a beautiful thing and it’s a wonderful thing given by God for us to experience joy, something unique to the humans. But what I learned was, “I want you to tell my story.” The purpose for a Christian is the same around the world: tell My story.

But the package you deliver it in is your vocation, your skill set, the giftedness God gave you. So I realized that I get to stay a comic. I get to continue to be the thing that I’m passionate about, that I’m inspired to do, that I’ve been gifted to do, but it’s about making sure that, “Are you telling My story contextually with this?”

MUYIWA: Brad, one final thing I have to ask you because our time is up –

BRAD STINE: Is it about the oranges?

MUYIWA: No. God is dealing – you can’t see, your faith is not strong enough, my friend.

BRAD STINE: (LAUGHING) That’s right. I understand.

MUYIWA: That’s turned to pomegranates.

BRAD STINE:     Well.

MUYIWA: But here we are, you’re talking about God’s story. I never heard Jesus laughing in the Bible. So how’d you do that in comedy? How do you talk about crucifixion in comedy?

BRAD STINE: Well, I haven’t talked about crucifixion yet (MUYIWA LAUGHS) in comedy, but there’s probably something humorous to that. I mean, listen, here’s what’s beautiful about comedy, there’s plenty of pain to go around on this earth, this is a fallen generation. We know throughout this, the world, there’s pain, there’s death, there’s poverty, there’s starvation, there’s hell. So God would say, “Take the joy while it’s there. Let Me give you a place of healing to find some way of enduring the worst of it.” Because let’s face it, the worst thing you can do to your enemy is not to attack them back, they expect that.

MUYIWA: Uh-huh.

BRAD STINE: Not to attack them or call them a name or be pejorative, they expect that. You’re just becoming them. You laugh in their face, it’s the ultimate. I say laugh in the face of Satan who tries to tell you, “You’re nothing, you’re worth nothing and you deserve to be destroyed.” And say, “No, there is a Creator who’s going to redeem this one day and I’m hanging on, I’m on His side.”

And you can find joy. And let’s face it, what people don’t need is to know — learn how to be happy when they’re happy. Teach ‘em how to be happy when they’re sad, they’ll want that.

MUYIWA: Brad, thank you so much for coming to see us.

BRAD STINE: My pleasure.

Her voice is beautiful. Her music, powerful and inspiring. CeCe Winans has earned numerous Grammy, Dove and Stellar awards over the last two decades. And she’s still going strong.

HOLLY: Well, we take this show all over the world, and one thing that we notice, whether we’re in Nairobi, Kenya or if we’re in Nigeria or the UK or the Caribbean, people love CeCe Winans.

CECE WINANS: Praise God!

HOLLY: Praise God.  (LAUGHS)

CECE WINANS: Yeah. It’s pretty amazing to me, you know, what God has done. I tell people all the time that God uses ordinary people.

HOLLY: Yeah.

CECE WINANS: And whenever I go around the country and they’re singing the lyrics to the songs that we’ve recorded, I don’t think there are any words to describe, you know, the heartfelt appreciation and also the wonder of God and His love and the things that He does, that only He can do.

HOLLY: Right.

Why do you think so many people from so many different backgrounds and cultures really connect so well with your music?

CECE WINANS: Because you have worshippers all over the world.  I’m a worshipper. And my prayer, my desire is that God be glorified through everything I sing, everything I do. And when people see that, they connect to that. It’s not about me, but it’s about the God that we serve. And I’ve never gotten that confused, you know, every platform that He’s given me, I understand is not about CeCe, but it’s about when I stand up there, that people see Him. And so when I go across the country and they’re singing and they’re sharing their testimonies of what my music has done for their lives and how they’ve been healed, set free, delivered, I understand it’s the power of God. It’s His anointing that breaks every yoke. And so I think that’s why people — people relate because people are hungry for God.

HOLLY: Yeah. You know one interesting thing that I learned about you was that, you know, a lot of people, when they look at CD sales and all of that, that’s their motivation. But for you, there’s something else that motivates you.

CECE WINANS: Yes, yes, definitely. I mean, as an artist, yes, you want to sell CDs, but it’s not why we do what we do. It’s about doing the work of the Lord, and for Him to really minister to lives and make them whole.

CeCe’s latest release, “Songs of Emotional Healing,” ushers listeners back into the throne room.

Let’s talk about your latest CD.

CECE WINANS: Okay.

HOLLY: This is what you said about it, “I’ve created this CD full of songs of encouragement, comfort, healing and love to lift all those who are feeling down for whatever reason.”

Why did you think it was so important to release songs of emotional healing at this particular time?

CECE WINANS: Well, you know what, I can’t take any credit for it, really. A lady came up to me, I came out of Sunday service one Sunday morning, and I was going to my car, and this lady came up to me and she was just weeping and thanking me, “Thank you so much. Thank you so much.” And I’m just standing there saying, “God bless you.” You know, “Why are you thanking me?”

And she went on to explain how her sister was battling depression really bad and she was so afraid that she was going to lose her, and how she began to play my music day in, day out and how it really took her totally out of the dark place into the light.

And that’s when the Lord really put on my heart to create a CD — I didn’t have to go in and do new songs — but take different — – look at all the stuff i’ve ever put out and create a CD that would minister to people who are battling depression, people who are going through emotional, mental, physical, whatever the situation, that would break that darkness off of their lives. And so that’s where Emotional Healing was birthed from.

And I called, let my manager know, “I know we’re supposed to be doing something else right now, but this is what the Lord has put in my spirit. Let’s create this CD of Emotional Healing and watch God do what He does.” And, what can I say? The responses have been amazing.

HOLLY: Now, I was going to ask you about that –

CECE WINANS:     Yes.

HOLLY: — because based on what we said earlier, success is really determined by how it impacts lives and changes lives.

CECE WINANS: Yes!

HOLLY: How has this changed lives?

CECE WINANS: Oh man, it pays to obey the Lord.

HOLLY: Yes, it does.

CECE WINANS: I read not too long ago somewhere where success is being obedient to the Lord. And I was like, yes, that would be success! Because sometimes it doesn’t make sense, what God tells us to do.

Like I said, it wasn’t on my schedule to do this, but when God put that on me, when the lady came up, I was like, “We’ve got to do it and we’ve got to do it now.”

HOLLY: Yeah.

CECE WINANS: You know. And when that happens, then God is able to move and do those things that only He can move. So the response of people being blessed, uplifted — I had this one lady who ordered several of them because she worked at a hospital and I think it was a cancer treatment hospital, and she says, “CeCe, oh my God, it’s just changing the spirits of the people.” And I’m just like, “Thank you, Lord!” ‘Cause you don’t think of all of that, but God is the best manager, He’s the best marketing person that you could ever have.

HOLLY: Worship is dear to CeCe’s heart and her passion is reaching young people. Her “Always Sisters Forever Brothers” conferences inspire young men and women to become who God created them to be.

CECE WINANS: I am so excited about it because we have to release the spirit of holiness.

HOLLY: Yeah.

CECE WINANS: You know. We have to go back to the old way. I know, that’s why I am where I am today, because I fell in love with God at a early age. I cannot stress the importance enough for young people to fall in love with God and have a real relationship with Him. Because when you do that, you don’t look for love in all the wrong places.

HOLLY: What are some of the key issues that you see that young people are dealing with when they come to these conferences?

CECE WINANS: So many issues, so many issues. Issues that I never thought I would see young people face. But I would have to say that most of the issues stem from young people not understanding who they are and whose they are.

When you don’t know who you are, then you begin to act live everybody and everything. They’re taking their cues from the wrong places. They’re taking them from television and from the video channels and all from the world and they’re getting confused about who they are.

When you understand who you are, then you understand the power you possess inside; you understand that you can do all things through Christ who strengthens you; you understand that you’re fearfully and wonderfully made. A lot of kids, you know, we all dealt with low self-esteem. The devil is a liar.

HOLLY: You are preaching! That’s so true.

CECE WINANS: So, you know, we have to speak out and show God — and God has just been so good to me.

HOLLY: Yeah.

CECE WINANS: He’s been so good to me. I count it an honor and a privilege to shout His name from the mountaintop.

My name is Isang Ubong Awah.  I am a wife, a mother of four children, and I’m a writer.

I was raised in Nigeria.  I was born in Calabah, but I’m from Akwa Ibom State.

I think I first knew I wanted to be a writer when I was about seven years old.  I vividly remember reading a story about a little girl who grew up to be a writer, and in that moment I knew that someday when I grow up, I would like to be a writer.

For me, I’m excited that I’m getting to study creative writing, and I’m also grateful to God that I’m getting to do it at Harvard.  But I think for me the greatest thing that I see in all of this is that with God all things are possible.  You know, sometimes you think it’s too late.  That was me.  For many years I wasn’t working, I wasn’t doing anything, you know.  I always had this dream of going back to school, writing, you know, learning how to write professionally and all of that, and after four years and so many years away, it was like this is just another of those dreams that will never come to be, but God has made it possible and right now, I’m working on my thesis, I have just one more course to go, and then I’m done.

I would say that my greatest source of encouragement has been my husband.  You know, even when I didn’t really think anything would come out of writing, he always encouraged me to keep writing and, at the point I had written a collection of stories, he brought out money and got the collection of short stories published, Tales of Another Kind, and I also had friends and other people that have encouraged me along the line, told me, “Oh, Isang, you’re a good writer,” and so on.

When I started writing, I never thought I would go into writing screenplays, you know.  It’s so much different from writing poems and songs and short stories.  But at some point I realized that I could make much more impact and minister to a lot more people if I went into writing screenplays and producing movies.

I got the inspiration to write Bent Arrows from God and then I decided to put it down, and then I had the screenplay for Bent Arrows.

Bent Arrows is basically about three different girls who went astray, you know, and it deals with different issues: undue parental influence, sexual abuse, different stuff.  The girls went through different things.  Their hearts were broken and then at some point they thought they had life and men figured out, and the way they work, but somewhere along the line individually they all met with God, and then got their lives straightened out.

For me, I think the greatest thing that I like people to learn from my story is that God brings dreams to pass.  He makes impossible things possible, and you could be there in your little corner in Africa, in Nigeria, and you could have this big dream and you think, “Oh, no, I don’t have the qualification, or I don’t know anybody, I don’t have the money, I don’t have this, I don’t have that.”  If you trust God and you keep working at it, obey Him every step of the way.  He will bring it to pass in His own time and in His own way, you know, and it doesn’t mean it’s going to happen when you want it to happen, or the way you think it should happen, but just hold on and keep working at it.  Don’t give up on your dream.  And never think that because you have this limitation or that limitation that it cannot be.  If God has given you a vision or a dream, He will definitely bring it to pass, if you hold on and you keep working on it.

My name is Isang Ubong Awah, and I am African.

PASTOR ANABA: I call Jesus the portrait of love because Jesus is the perfect picture of love.

ERICA: Ghanaian pastor Eastwood Anaba has sparked a revolution that is spreading around the world.  It all started in 1993 when he mentioned a scripture in his first book God’s End Time Militia.

PASTOR ANABA: It was the end of the book, I said there was going to be a sovereign move of God on the face of the earth and it would be birthed in a love revolution, from Isaiah Chapter 11 verse 6 to 9.

That was the first time I spoke about the love revolution.  Then by 2005 the need to preach it became strong, because you could see the divisions in the body of Christ.  People were getting bitter and bitter against one another.  Churches are divided into factions.  Rumors of war all over the world.  Even preachers are struggling to look like Christians.

ERICA: So in 2005 the love revolution officially began. Pastor Anaba only intended to preach this message at his church, Fountain gate Chapel.  However, God had other plans.

PASTOR ANABA: After 2006, the Lord said “Keep preaching.”  2007, He said, “Write a book.”  And I did the first one, The Love Revolution in 2007.  2008, I continued writing, The Pastor and His Love, The Exploits of Love, The Practice of Love, For Love’s Sake, Time of Love, and then did the last one called A Portrait of Love.

ERICA: Pastor Eastwood has traveled to Europe, North America and throughout Africa, igniting a revolution of love.  This message of love has not only touched church congregants, it has also changed his family.

ROSEMOND: I was the type that when anybody did anything to me, it was very difficult to let go.  I would pray, but the hurt would still be there.  And I remember when he started preaching the love revolution, I told myself, well, you are your husband’s sermon, whatever he preaches, people will look at you and then they see whether you are living by it.  And so I asked God to fill my heart with love so that anything that happened to us will just go off, you know, as quickly as possible, and I see God has done a lot of work in me.

PASTOR ANABA: Everybody in the world today, you ought to imitate His life, you ought to emulate Him, you ought to copy Him, and walk like Him, it is Jesus and nobody else.

Partaking in the love revolution is just opening up to this sovereign move of God.  That takes the emphasis away from our achievements, our breakthroughs, the kind of things we want from God, and makes us focus on God as a person- to love Him with all our heart and to love our neighbor as ourselves.

ERICA: This revelation became even more real when Pastor Anaba’s daughters, Audrey and Amanda, were killed in a car accident.

PASTOR ANABA: In terms of my love revolution, God can love you but He can still allow you to go through some stuff.  And that is because love does not always look at the process, love looks at the product.  So if the product is going to be good, and it can be used to save somebody, and you yourself, it will make you a better person, God may allow it.

ERICA: Pastor Eastwood says the tragedy changed his perspective of ministry.

PASTOR ANABA: Prior to that I had the appetite every preacher will have – success, breakthrough, anointing, prosperity, huge crowds, successful ministry.  Today I don’t look for any of that.  In fact, they don’t mean anything to me.  You are now at a stage where you are almost prepared to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness.

ERICA: Pastor Anaba says the way to pursue one’s love revolution is to remember love is not just a feeling, but it’s an action.

PASTOR ANABA: One has to do a soul-searching.  Search our hearts, redirect our priorities, and just to get to know that having God and people is more important than having things and doing achievements.